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Does anyone like Uncanny?

 
 
Jack Denfeld
05:24 / 08.12.02
I get most of my books free, so I'll read anything really. Anyway, New X-Men was far superior to Uncanny for a while. Hell, even judged on it's own, Uncanny was just bad. But I've been enjoying it lately. That fish head kid's kinda funny, and it's been really fun lately. Just little things, like that see-thru blob kid getting nervous around Nightcrawler and saying "How's it happening?", and getting joked by his buddy. If you have a couple of extra dollars next trip to the shop, you might give it a chance.
 
 
The Falcon
05:36 / 08.12.02
It looks nice, and if I had a coupla dollars (or pounds, as we call them here) to spare, I'd give it a pop.

Austen, unfairly described elsewhere on this site as a 'hack' (in typical fanboy hyperbole, I might - possibly - add) seems to have a good grip, and have mastered the trick of pleasing all the people all the time. Nearly.

Fair play to the fella.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
07:36 / 08.12.02
I have liked the book since Austin took over, and his characterization has been the most interesting part of the comic. Yes, the Northstar story was pretty much a made for TV movie on the comic page, but it was the first time the character had a personality other than "A gay Quicksilver". He also made Juggernaut interesting for the first time since he guest starred in Spider-Man, and is making ALL of the core characters interesting.

I know he's been called a hack, but the guy was away from comics for about 15 years, and now that he has his feet under him, his work is improving rapidly.

I'm interested in what he's planning, at least, and it's more than I've been able to say about Uncanny since issue 190.
 
 
at the scarwash
17:53 / 08.12.02
I don't mind Chuck Austin, I mean he's baseline-capable at any rate, but it will take a decent artist to actually make this book readable.
 
 
The Falcon
18:25 / 08.12.02
i.e. not Chuck Austen.

His art's horrible, like those wooden artist's mannikins, in every frame.

I think Asamiya is more than decent, mind. Garney on the other fist, nggh.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:29 / 09.12.02
I think UNCANNY has been a disappointment pretty much consistently since the relaunch with GM over on NXM.

Too bad they haven't found a creative team for UNCANNY to equal the magic GM's working over in New X-Men (pun intended). Austen's writing is decent, but not great; Joe Casey had decent ideas that went very astray, the art teams have been mediocre overall (nice to see Sean Phillips there for a brief period), this Kia dude doesn't impress me. Nice to see Northstar used, but that's about it from my perspective.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
14:46 / 09.12.02
"A gay Quicksilver"

Freddy Mercury?
 
 
some guy
16:57 / 09.12.02
Casey's revamp failed for me because he's a poor writer, and one with little grasp of the characters. Austen's run has been mixed, with me alternately wanting to applaud or throw the book across the room, often in the space of a few pages. I like his use of Anne and Paige, but the heroic stories aren't working for me, the character selection is a mess, he doesn't appear to have ever read anything featuring Warren or Kurt, and Ron Garney is just completely wrong for the book.

In terms of characterization, I can't find very good explanations for the roster of any of the three X-books, with Uncanny suffering the most from the analysis. Why the hell aren't Logan, Storm and Kurt on the same team? Why are the original five split? In terms of character, it doesn't make sense.

I'm going to be a bit controversial and suggest that Uncanny X-Men will never be good again. Not because of some "corporate spandex" bias or anything. But because Chris Claremont was such a good writer in the early days that he killed the series. Yep. Not out of bad writing, but out of good writing.

Back in the day, Claremont was a master of characterization. I don't mean the cod accents. I mean character, the fundamental personae of the X-Men. Uncanny 94 through 227 forms on giant, ongoing arc in which story developments for the most part arise inexorably out of character. The best example of this is Storm, who arcs perfectly from her introduction through to the end of "Fall of the Mutants." No mis-steps, no suprise revelations, no out-of-character turns. Even the shock punk period is telegraphed in advance, and ends naturally. This in turn generated story events that culminated in the death of the X-Men in issue 227.

By this issue, Claremont had deconstructed superhero comics in a body of work so mammoth that it's only now, in retrospect, that we can appreciate it. With Byrne he built it up; post Byrne, he tore it down. The mentor figure is gone. The arch-enemy has been integrated into the team - tellingly as headmaster for a new generation. Alliances have been forged with the faction ultimately responsible for Jean Grey's death (the Hellfire Club). Superheroics have been forced into a realistic lens via the Mutant Massacre. Powers have been removed. Nearly all of the spandex has been dropped. The mansion has been ditched for "real" accomodations for a rootless group. And then, just when everything builds to a logical head, everyone dies.

How the hell do you compete with that? It's a dead book, has been ever since. The core X-Men have been shuffled around and abused by other writers in the interim, become caricatures rather than characters (lord, anyone remember when Logan was an honest-to-god character?) Anything Casey or Austen does is damaged by what Claremont did, because the status quo couldn't return without major damage to the book and the characters. Even he was adrift for another fifty or so issues, aware that he couldn't go back, but unable to pull anything forward.

A rambling mess here, sorry.
 
 
penitentvandal
17:55 / 09.12.02
In a tangential way, your post, LLB, sums up why I find Grant's version more satisfying than Uncanny.

What Grant has done is basically start again, forgetting about all the previous continuity. He kills off Magneto and introduces new villains. He turns the X-Men into a transnational corporation, he fucks with Scott and Jean, and he makes Wolverine into an anachronistic, surly, bitter relic of a super-soldier, long-surpassed by the likes of Fantomex. He pulls in whatever bits of Claremont he likes - the Shi'ar, the Phoenix - without slavish adherence to continuity and somehow it all works, and makes each new issue of NXM a thing of wonder to behold (especially now Quitely's coming back).

All the writers on Uncanny, however, seem to be beholden to the old continuity. Kurt is a near-faithless priest. Havok comes back (again). Angel can't get over the loss of his bint. Northstar comes back, agonizes about his sexuality (because, gay-men-in-comics rule 23, gay characters must always agonize about their sexuality), and falls for Iceman. (how long has Northstar been around? Would he really not have noticed that Bobby's straight in all that time?) Angst, angst, angst. Yawn, yawn, yawn.

UXM should be going all out to match the insane pop art craziness of NXM, issue after issue, rather than turning into the dull, soap-opera companion to Grant's grand saga.

However: that would need two writers as good and insane as Grant Morrison, both willing to work for Marvel, and both willing to work on the X-Books...
 
 
FinderWolf
18:07 / 09.12.02
LLB, I'd have to disagree, only in that I think Grant Morrison and many others at Marvel have shown a book is only as good - or bad - as its writer. And a good writer can breathe new life into even the most seemingly-dead book. UNCANNY just hasn't found that new writer yet.

And I agree with you that the character selection assembled for the UNCANNY cast is really awful. I still maintain that somewhere out there is a writer who can make UNCANNY a great book, just as Grant made us care about Adjectiveless X-Men for the first time in 15 years.
 
 
some guy
18:09 / 09.12.02
UXM should be going all out to match the insane pop art craziness of NXM, issue after issue, rather than turning into the dull, soap-opera companion to Grant's grand saga.

I agree it shouldn't be a companion to Morrison's book, but there's no point in it being a pop spectacle. that's already being done next door. With X-Treme handling the "heroics" there doesn't seem to be any real role for Uncanny. It needs a unique mission statement.

Still, at least it's better than Ultimate X-Men.
 
 
some guy
18:13 / 09.12.02
I think Grant Morrison and many others at Marvel have shown a book is only as good - or bad - as its writer.

I sort of agree, but even New X-Men feels a little off to me. I enjoy it, don't get me wrong. But it's hampered by the larger context of "These characters no longer make sense." That first Morrison/Quitely issue should really have been the first issue of Ultimate X-Men, in my opinion. A clean break.

Otherwise, even Morrison's writing can't alter the fact Logan has no compelling reason not to slide over to X-Treme, where he's a more logical fit. Too many elements of Morrison's run feel inorganic to the story for it to work as well as it could for me.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:30 / 09.12.02
Actually, though I'd want Uncanny X-Men to be more like a companion to New X-Men, it's maybe more logical to have it be what it now is: an X-Men comic for an audience that's needs are not being met with New X-Men or X-Treme X-Men. Personally, I think Chuck Austen's writing is aggressively mediocre at best and horrible sub-literate shit at worst; Ron Garney is an entirely illogical choice for a flagship X-Men title, and that the kindest thing I can say about Kiya Asamiya is that he's marginally talented. It's a trainwreck, and so was Casey's run, but at least SOME people like Austen's run, so it's not a total failure.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
21:02 / 09.12.02
it's maybe more logical to have it be what it now is: an X-Men comic for an audience that's needs are not being met with New X-Men or X-Treme X-Men.

Now here is an interesting tack, what niche can we see that UXM could move into?

Personally I like most of the characters that has been plonked onto the roster. Let see, Angel (god what an ugly costume) and Kurt... Religeous exploration. Blasphemy and faith? Kurt and Northstar in/tolerance and a gay man? Religeon and The business world? The human with the mutant kid, Iceman and someone, Hell even Juggernaut could be interesting, a redemption theme? Stacy should be dropped quietly, she isn't eve worth a dramatic death from what I can tell.

Any ideas?
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
22:25 / 09.12.02
Laurence, you've sold me. I want to read Claremont's run now. NOW!
 
 
houdini
14:01 / 11.12.02

LLB, great analysis of the Claremont era. Sadly, it wasn't till UXM #225 that I started regularly collecting this title - just in time to watch the disintegration begin as the "should've-been-dead" X-Men floundered aimlessly around Australia, Genosha, the Siege Perilous and various netherworlds.

I sometimes wonder about that Siege Perilous with its power of miraculous rebirth. (For those who aren't X-goons, you pass through the gateway (which was gifted to the X-Men by Roma, the Omniversal Guardian) and are reborn, somewhere, in your own body (but brand new) living the dream life you always wanted.) In a sense, it's a more conscious version of 'Crisis On Infinite Earths' - a tool whereby the characters were able to rewrite their own continuity. Or should've been if the story hadn't sprawled so horribly.

So the X-Men die. They spend some time in Limbo (not Illyana's pad so much as the featureless outback desert, although Miss Rasputin and her demons are down there). Then they rewrite their own continuity - first by going into the world of their dream lives and then by having Scuzzy Old Logan (the only X-Man not to go through the SP) wander round the globe and drag them back to their X-lives, just in time for the big continuity reboot, return of Prof X, rebuilding of the Mansion and (New) X-Men #1.

In retrospect, it seems strangely symbolic. Too bad that when I was reading it it just seemed like a big hodgepodge of tosh.

But, IMHO, LLB is right. The seminal Claremont era that ran up to 227 was a thing of beauty, 135-odd issues of superhero development, dragging mainstream comics forward with every step.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
02:53 / 12.05.03
I haven't been to the local shop since about the middle of that werewolf story. So what's going on now? Has anyone dropped or picked up this book lately? How is Austen's story progressing?
 
 
FinderWolf
16:12 / 12.05.03
I sure as heck don't like Uncanny. Neither Joe Casey or Chuck Austen have remotely impressed me.
 
 
Simplist
17:09 / 12.05.03
Uncanny 94 through 227 forms on giant, ongoing arc in which story developments for the most part arise inexorably out of character...

Your all-around analysis represents pretty high praise--any idea how much of this run is collected in readily available form? I've read some of the more famous sections, but wasn't buying X-Men consistently during that time period.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:31 / 12.05.03
Picked up the 25 cent issue that just came out...

A bit of a mess:
The Church of Humanity show up an crusify a half-dozen mutants on the mansion's fron lawn (HOW?).

They are brought to the med-lab where a blood transfusion with Arch-Angel brings all but one back to life....

Wolverine is around to panick about Jubilee's tmepory"death"

as is Jean (who can now recognize "mutant blood" by looking at it) and Cyclops who is all of a sudden Hella-pissed at Nightcrawler for neglecting his "leadership" role and letting Archangle assume much of those responsibilities.

Havok is back in his most rediculous costume ever!!! And of course he and scott argue about his scolding Nightcrawler about never getting around to file a report on the church of humanity...

So there's a whole bunch of just plain bad charactorization...not one of them is recognizable.

The art's lame... poor Ron Garney used to begood...

The plot stumbles along revealing that no-one has known about Kurts becoming a priest (& Havok is both upset that he (& everyone else) wasn't invited to Kurt's "ordainment"(?) and unable to accept that Kurt, looking as he does, would even believe he could successfully fullfill his role as a priest) and of course they investigate. Showing up at the church where Kurt's been "preaching" it's a deserted rundown place.
BTW... Scott & Jean join the mission for this. Upon entering they find puddles of Mutant blood on the floor of this obviously-not-used-for-prayer-services-in-years church. Jean then blows open the floor to reveal a huge messy mutant testing lab benieth seeming being run by non-other than Jason Stryker!!! pulled fresh out of the comic-book adaptation of the film...

I like most of the charactors appearing un Uncanny... I just wish they where being written in a way that made sence. Plot-wise as well as charactor & all around story-wise...

No wonder Nightcrawler is allways so depressed...
 
 
Aertho
18:08 / 12.05.03
One thing I do like (and I DON'T read the book): Family Reunification. Juggernaut's not running away from his brother anymore, Polaris and Havok have found each other, perhaps there are more instances I'm not mentioning?

What if the book IS dead? What would be the next evolution? Moving out of Casa Xavier and into X-Corporation HQ? Invisibles Volume 1 style self-contained issues where we look at what being a mutant means in the Nu New Marvel Universe? Spy action? Mutants in space? I always thought Peter David's X-Factor gov't idea was cool, but never followed through... maybe that?

Personally, I dig the guys chosen for Uncanny. Well, lemme rephrase: only Nightcrawler, Iceman and Archangel. A Stormwatch Prime team with them only would be interesting to read. Provided Warren handled overt operations and acquisitions... Kurt handled covert ops, and Iceman provides attitude and flava. Drop the others.
 
 
diz
18:32 / 12.05.03
How the hell do you compete with that? It's a dead book, has been ever since... Even he was adrift for another fifty or so issues, aware that he couldn't go back, but unable to pull anything forward.


i disagree here. i thought that the overall concept of the Australian-era X-Men was really strong, and in a sense it was the best expression of the whole "outlaw heroes fighting for a world that fears and hates them" idea.

i mean, they were dead, for God's sake, and living in the middle of the wilderness, fighting battles in the shadows against the spectre of an onrushing dystopian future like the one they glimpsed in Days of Future Past (or one that looked like Genosha, for that matter). they had ruthless, truly murderous enemies like the Marauders and the Reavers who were clearly not fucking around (which was proved quite graphically in Mutant Massacre).

no mentor. no mansion. no safety net. the world had seen them die. they didn't show up on cameras. computer files that mentioned them mysteriously erased themselves. the whole thing was so cool, and it (not their death in Dallas) was the culmination of the very deconstruction of the superhero genre that you're talking about. everything up to Fall of the Mutants was the death of the old superhero genre, and what followed was a new kind of superhero. they were well past the point now where they could do the normal superhero gig. no real possibility of having secret identities and civilian lives - their continued existence was the secret. a small band of outlaws, banded together to fight for the vision of a long-departed mentor in a world where everything was getting uglier by the minute. the death wasn't the end of the arc, but just the necessary clearing of the way for the next phase, which was a new kind of superhero group entirely.

i mean, wow.

the execution, sadly, didn't always live up to the potential, but i think some of the high points are among the best in Claremont's whole run.

what killed Uncanny and the X-Men in general (or, rather, until NXM) wasn't the death of the X-Men, but rather the relaunch circa X-Men #1, and everything leading up to it. the return of Xavier, the return of Magneto to full-on villain status, the reunion of the original five with everyone else, the return to the mansion, etc etc etc. just completely wasted everything that had been accomplished up to that point, and changed what was, overall, a really unique post-superhero superhero comic back into something much more traditional. plus, once Claremont left, Storm got completely neutered as a character, when she and Logan had been the glue that held the team together through the worst times. then a nicely-polished version of Jean and Scott became the X-Men supercouple, crap characters like Bishop and Gambit basked in the limelight while characters like Colossus suffered, etc etc etc.

but i don't think the X-Men's death in Dallas wasn't the conclusion you're arguing it is, but rather the beginning of a new phase which was aborted after failing (or being prevented) from living up to its potential.
 
 
some guy
19:05 / 12.05.03
Sapient - Essential X-Men 1-4 collects the complete run from the arrival of the new characters through to somewhere in the 160s or 170s I think. Worth noting that the magnificence of the Claremont run is best seen through distance, looking at the whole. Some of the individual details haven't aged well.

Kittenz - great post. I actually kind of agree with you in terms of the early days of Australia but that's also around the time when the series starts to fall apart for me. Agree 100% on the true death of the series with the "reboot" of X-Men 1.

The loss of Storm and Logan as characters was annoying ... despite Grant they remain caricatures today.
 
 
perceval
10:06 / 14.05.03

As others have brought up, Morrison has managed to follow Claremont's legacy on the books just fine, so it's not that it's impossible.

Uncanny does lack identity. New is the book bringing the X-Men into the 21st Century. X-Treme has Claremont doing super heroics. Uncanny, meanwhile, is just sort of there, being the "other book". Austen DOES seem to have pleased the fanboys who hate both Claremont's classic and Morrison's current runs, who really think the mid to late 90s were the high point of the X-Men (I can't see how anyone can objectively think that was the best written period, but they're there).

E
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
10:59 / 14.05.03
I agree with Kittenz, the Australian period was a very important part of Claremont's story. Once the group falls apart and heads through the Siege Perilous, that's the end of Claremont's run for me. 1989-1991 with Jim Lee and the rest doesn't make much sense and seems very forced, and once Claremont leaves after X-Men starts up, it's over and doesn't begin again til New X-Men #114.

It's amazing how the X-Men 4-113 era is like this huge gap of time that is almost unnecessary in understanding the series. You know how in Keith Giffen and the Bierbaum's Legion Of Super Heroes, there's a five year gap between the old superhero Legion and their new dystopian future Legion? It's sort of like that, but all of those years were actually published.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:42 / 14.05.03
I agree with Kittenz analysis of where X-Men went wrong, though not why. Claremont was very carefully in developing X-Factor organically in their last year to the point where they were asking themselves "Fuck! Why don't we move back in with the X-Men?", but, the launch of Adjectiveless %1 was where the X-Men became a corporate Marvel brand. So the days when one group would go off wandering in space for seven or eight issues for no real reason were gone, every comic had to tie together, despite the fact that Marvel's shitty distribution system meant that special issues, which came around every six months or so, were always late.

At the time, being a real fan, I thought it was great. Looking back, I realise it covered up writing flaws and stifled real creativity.
 
 
perceval
21:05 / 14.05.03

I think I've figured out one of my problems with X-Treme, too. It's the cast. I like the characters individually well enough, but they don't make for the most interesting mix. They're all so NICE and perfect. CC excels at writing characters with grey areas, more antiheroic. His Magneto was more interesting than his Xavier, and his Jean more interesting than his Ororo. Whenever one of these grey area characters like Jean or Emma has popped up in X-Treme, they've stolen the book.

E
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:11 / 14.05.03
You know, only recently have I heard about the 90s-era X-Men comics always being late. I never noticed at the time, probably because I wasn't at all excited about getting new issues. It didn't seem like things were ever late, though.
 
 
The Falcon
01:13 / 15.05.03
I'm pretty sure Uncanny #304, the 'Fatal Attractions' ish, was late.
 
  
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