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Underground > Temple >

P-Orridge plays his violin

01:23 / 08.12.02

A year or two back, I saw an interview between Genesis P-Orridge and some american guy on late night channel 4. During this interview, Mr. P-Orridge recounted how he always had a violin on stage because if he played the correct combination of five notes, he would be transported to another dimension. He said he had read this in a book by someone whose name I forget, though he was deemed important enough to warrant an oil painting of him appear on screen for a couple of seconds.
I would love to know the name of the author and the book.

Man, I have so may obscure queries about random stuff I've seen on late night tv. One at a time however I think. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Boy in a Suitcase

02:32 / 08.12.02

This was likely the DisinfoTV show, but that's all I know.

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03:20 / 08.12.02

Ah, good old Genesis P-Orridge. I'd love to meet him one day. I know a guy who actually had dinner with him back in the 80's, during the Psychic TV tour. Lucky him...

05:34 / 08.12.02

Austin Osman Spare perhaps?

GPO, entering other dimensions, and oil paintings just reminded me of the article I just re-read by Genesis about Austin Spare and the transporting quality of his art.

http://www.topy.net/topy/Library/InfoWar

scroll down to 'Time Mirrors'.

There's also a really good archive of Spare info including his art and writing here:

http://www.hermetic.com/spare/index.html

As for the Disinfo interview, it is out in book form, and if any mention was made of it there the book is in stock at the large book chain near my workplace. I'll have to skim through the interview the next time I'm in there to see if it's mentioned (Spare or the interdimensional violin).

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:54 / 08.12.02

I think this thread would probably get more replies in the Magick - anyone mind if I move to have it shifted?

08:23 / 08.12.02

Fiddler, indeed! I saw PTV a couple of times, and there was no hint of a violin onstage that I could see.

Can't help you with the author, I'm afraid.

Matthew Fluxington

16:12 / 08.12.02

Wouldn't this be better for the Music forum?

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:09 / 08.12.02

I don't think so. Genesis P. orridge is, IIRC, a name in magic as well as in Music, and since the question is about using musical notation as a means to travel dimensionally, rather than using musical notation to create a sund to be appreciated aesthetically, I think it is both more relevatn to the Magick and more likely to get a response there.

Rollo Kim, on location

19:27 / 08.12.02

If he didn't get it from Spare it must have been Mr Crowley? Did Crowley say anything about sound and music in his writing? It actually sounds more like a Buddhist thing - the power of sound... is there ANYTHING out there on sound and magick???? And Mr Gen's IS a lovely bloke in person.

20:27 / 08.12.02

Rollo Kim: And Mr Gen's IS a lovely bloke in person.

You must have meet him on a good day. Those whom he has repeatedly screwed over or attempted to intimidate would be far pressed to describe him as "lovely".

20:40 / 08.12.02

Maybe he's like Timothy Leary, Aleister Crowley or J.R. "Bob" Dobbs. Follow him if you must, but keep your wallet firmly closed or, better yet, give it to a friend for safekeeping.

21:04 / 08.12.02

I second the call for more info on magick and sound.

On a personal note, several of my most powerful dreams have involved a rising drone or chanting sound. And chanting AUM or a pseudo-tuva gutteral sound is still one of my favourite and most effective ways to banish negativity.

Then there's always Coil's 'Time Machines'. Brilliant stuff which still manages to induce strange states and rather uncomfortable hallucinations, especially listened to while falling asleep.

As for heroes and idols... I would treat them all as painfully human. Appreciate all the wisdom and information they have to offer, but don't turn them into perfect gurus. That said, I'm sure I would enjoy a good long conversation with GPO. He does manage to say some very interesting things, and offer more than just a bit of food for thought.

Rollo Kim, on location

23:52 / 08.12.02

Well yeah Anathema, Mr Gen certainly has a lot of enemies. In the case of TOPY - an organization which he set up as far as I'm aware, members are forever bad-mouthing him, despite the fact that they still operate under his ideas, using his symbols and texts etc.

I don't know about him ripping people off though - the guy never made much money from his work - and has been exploited by a number of labels who've released some of his work without paying him a penny. The only people I'm aware of who have a problem with him seem to be former PTV roadies going on about not being paid enough, or members of TOPY who were ejected for having smack habits.

I guess people tend to resent the likes of Gen [John Lydon, Burroughs, Crowley, Grant Morrison etc.] when they move on to other things, and change, refuse to play the game.

I'm sure he's no saint but the guy's been active in some damned worthy causes since the 60's. The guy's had a rough time of it over the last ten years, but he certainly seems to have found some balance lately. And I just take people as I find them. As dubpulse says, he's only human.

On the sound front, Hafler Trio have done some pretty heavy stuff on the effects of sound on the body and the mind, their brainwashed website [http://www.brainwashed.com/h3o/] is a pain to navigate but well worth checking out. The Scholtz Vitrine Collective also talk about 'Psycoustic Sound' and how it can be used to create states of higher consciousness.

08:09 / 09.12.02

Rollo Kim: In the case of TOPY - an organization which he set up as far as I'm aware, members are forever bad-mouthing him, despite the fact that they still operate under his ideas, using his symbols and texts etc.

Not all TOPY members bad mouth him, just those with personal grievances and good reasons to do so. Generalizing is a bad thing.

How did a symbol which has been around for thousands of years ever become his? How does one copyright or trademark the ideas and concepts of personal freedom? Or magical systems which existed before one was ever born? How do texts created collaboratively by many individuals ever become the property of one man? One can create and put ideas out there... but once they are out there... they cannot be held on to, especially when those ideas are not entirely one's own. Gen did some brilliant work, but TOPY is and always was a collaborative project of many brilliant people, not just one rockstar. It wasn't created solely by him, it was never about him and it didn't stop existing once he opted to turn his back on it.

I don't know about him ripping people off though

Because you don't know about somethime doesn't mean it isn't true.

- the guy never made much money from his work - and has been exploited by a number of labels who've released some of his work without paying him a penny. The only people I'm aware of who have a problem with him seem to be former PTV roadies going on about not being paid enough, or members of TOPY who were ejected for having smack habits.

There is an awful lot of history missing in your account which you are clearly not aware of. I don't seek to turn this thread into a flame or a place to air dirty laundry... but not everyone in TOPY was/is a junky (far from it), and most people who have issues with Gen have them for rather legitimate reasons.

08:55 / 09.12.02

To go back to the original query, wouldn't be Lovecraft would it?
Perhaps his short story "The Music of Eric Zann"?

Rollo Kim, on location

09:04 / 09.12.02

Anathea: Not all TOPY members bad mouth him, just those with personal grievances and good reasons to do so. Generalizing is a bad thing.

Well yeah - I don't mean all of them, obviously. I was just really taken-back by the amount of people out there who have a problem with the guy.

How did a symbol which has been around for thousands of years ever become his? How does one copyright or trademark the ideas and concepts of personal freedom? Or magical systems which existed before one was ever born? How do text created collaboratively by many individuals ever become the property of one man?

Good points! But it was Gen who combined the symbol with the name. But that's nothing new I guess. And just the fact that he's asked them not to call it TOPY anymore etc. I'm facinated by the whole thing anyway - I don't have a problem I just wish I'd been around when it was setting up. Found a lot of his writing pretty interesting - reminded me of Gurdjieff in an odd way - and I know that the bible was a collaborative thing [there's some H3o stuff in there I think!]

One can create and put ideas out there... but once they are out there... they cannot be held on to, especially when those ideas are not entirely one's own.

Which is what he did I guess - he moved on. He's human though isn't he, there is an ego there, otherwise he'd have given up doing all this stuff years ago.

Because you don't know about somethime doesn't mean it isn't true.

Erm, am I coming across like a complete moron here then? Sorry!

There is an awful lot of history missing in your account which you are clearly not aware of. I don't seek to turn this thread into a flame or a place to air dirty laundry... but not everyone in TOPY was/is a junky (far from it), and most people who have issues with Gen have them for rather legitimate reasons.

Of course I'm not suggesting that the whole org are smacked out of their heads. And I'm not trying to write or re-write TOPY history here - I'd be the first to admit that I don't know much about them. Take it easy Anathema, - I'll say no more as I'm obviously pissing you off here and that's not something I want to do. I'd really rather be talking about this idea of the power of sound than dropping names or something anyway.

The Return Of Rothkoid

10:29 / 09.12.02

I think Poe's The Devil In The Belfry made reference to a fiddler who could fuck up time - but it's been a while since I've read it...

11:06 / 09.12.02

Of course I'm not suggesting that the whole org are smacked out of their heads. And I'm not trying to write or re-write TOPY history here - I'd be the first to admit that I don't know much about them. Take it easy Anathema, - I'll say no more as I'm obviously pissing you off here and that's not something I want to do. I'd really rather be talking about this idea of the power of sound than dropping names or something anyway.

The whole Gen is a great guy thing just gets old, when so many people have been burned. I didn't mean to hijack a post about music, but if you don't know much about something, it's best not to refer to things as "fact" when posting them on a public forum.

How about we let history write itself?

Onward...

17:42 / 09.12.02

I can't say that I love Gen - that would be a hollow claim.

But he did make some observations...

21:43 / 09.12.02

A helpful lurker has emailed me with the answer. Thanks Zebbin.
The book is called Zanoni, by Sir Edward Bulwer-Lytton.

I'm tempted to ask another....but its just too obscure. If any of you ever watched The Trip, again on late night TV, could you raise your hand or something. There was a clip off there I would like to identify.

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13:32 / 10.12.02

I just ordered Coil's "Time Machines", I can't wait to hear it. Coil is one of my favorite bands.

I'll be honest and say that P-Orridge is a man I respect. A lot. Granted, he has his faults, we all do, but... I mean come on, the man is perfect for a site like this. Just look at all the stuff he did with Throbbing Gristle, Coum Transmissions, Psychic TV, TOPY. Fuck, he was the only man exiled from England in the last 100 years. That alone gets him my admiration.

P-Orridge and his work was what got me interested in stuff like Crowley, Sigils, Chaos Magic, Situationism, discordianism, etc. Throbbing Gristle: Imagine the Invisibles forming a band! The disinformation tactics they used to confuse the media... trying to get young people to get into magic, form a psychic youth movement. That band and some of the things P-Orridge has said is very revelant to The Invisibles (hell, GM is working with P-Orridge on a book right?) Look at issue #9 of Volume 3 of the Invisibles and tell me that's not the TG lightning bolt logo tattooed on Roger and Fanny's arm.